Bands Selling Tickets?

ugh, I am so sick of promoter that try to get " local" bands to sell tickets to be able play shows. am i the only one that thinks this is just wrong. it seem that the promoters book a national with a large guarantee, and then use the local bands to sell the tickets to pay the national,while the local band gets paid NOTHING. Even though they are the ones bringing in the people, and doing the foot work and "promoting" It really just fucks over the locals, they are the ones that are selling the tickets, and bringing the people..and what do they get for their effort?.. wouldnt a local band be better off just booking their own show and keeping the proffit instead of working their asses off just to hand it over to an outside promoters?..i personally would much rather have someone hand me a flier on the street than try to hustle me tickets. isnt it the promoters job to, oh i dunno.. PROMOTE!? if you;re relying on bands to sell tickets to get people in your club then you;re doing something wrong.... put adds out, make fliers, radio.. internet.. whatever works.. The bands job is to get on stage and put on a hell of a show to make people want to come out, buy tickets, buy drinks ect. if the national, or even the locals for that matter are worth their salt they will bring the people..all you "promoters" out theere dont take advantage of bands that work really hard just because you want to be lazy or greedy ... just my 2 cents.. maybe i am the only one that thinks this.. maybe there is another side that i am not seeing.. please by all means tell me your thoughts

S

I think i can see it from both sides. The idea of playing with a national is so that you can get exposure and put their name on your press kit. There is also a chance that they could bring in a good crowd. It looks good, and its pretty awesome to play in front of a bunch of people, I get it. On the flip side to that, I have played tons of shows with national bands that dont draw any more than the locals do, and that REALLY sucks. I haven't been in the situation of selling tickets yet, so i dont have all of the details. I can imagine the feeling of doing a ton of work and selling lots of tickets, then you have to hand over all that money.

Let me start by saying that the business of music is the business of "Sales". Dont get it twisted. The bands who just wanna "play music" and think they are gonna blow up outta nowhere, are the bands that will fail and fall straight on their faces.

I do think that the tickets are a good idea though. Think of it this way, it is a way of getting the fans to "commit" to comming out to the show. It also gives you a chance to connect with that fan, and get them to check out your music before the show. Here are the scenarios.

A. You got flyers and you are out passing them around. You hand it to someone and they say: "I'll be there, i love that band!". You give them the details, walk away, they put the flyer in their pocket, and 10 seconds later they have already forgotten about the show. Yea, you gave them a flyer. Yeah, they will find it later that night when they go home, and they will throw it away immediately. Not that they dont want to come to the show, its just that they have the info, and now the flyer is a piece of trash. Even if they REALLY REALLY wanna go, their attention span will not let them remember to make plans to go to the show. This is most cases. I would say probably about 10-30% of the people you actually hand a flyer to, will show up.

B. You got the flyers, and the tickets. You hand a flyer to someone and they say: "I'll be there, i love that band!", you say "Great, I've got the tickets right here, and they are a little cheaper than buying them at the show. You can save a couple of bucks and buy a drink when you get there!" they say "Cool, I'll go ahead and get 1" chances are that they are with someone else who is interested in going to the show, and they will buy a ticket also. Now you have a commitment, not a "chance" that they might remember .... to..... remember...... to make plans for the show.

Now, you have built a little bit of a relationship with the fan. Take this time to tell them your bands website and info. Be creative with it. Put a twist on it that makes them curious about looking you up online.

Most likely, if they were going to the show, they were going because of the national band. However if you can get them intersted in checking your bands website and music before the show, they will probably get there early to see your band too.



Here is where you need to take a step back and think about the situation. You have just made a contact with a fan, and got them to buy a ticket so you know they are coming to the show. At this point, you cant ask for a better situation.

Showtime. If you have done your job properly, they went home and checked out your band. Hopefully your website looks professional. Any band can do that by themselves nowadays. What you want to do is find them at the show BS with them again, and get them to come over to your merch table. Even if they didn't think your music was that great, they will most likely buy something, because you have made a connection.

Everyone wants to feel like they are a part of something, this is why bands have pet names for their fans "maggots", "jugalos", etc. If you can sell yourself to that fan, you have already sold your band. Plain and simple as that. I'll say it again, If you can sell yourself to that fan, you have already sold your band.

Yes the national got paid tonight and you didn't. That doesn't matter. What matters is that you USED the national band to make a fan in your area.

That fan is worth more money, than the little bit you would have got a cut of if they money was split.

Rule #1 NEVER PLAY A SHOW WITHOUT HAVING SOMETHING TO SELL!

yeah i can totally see your point there, and you do have really good scenerios, i guess its not the actual selling of the tickets that i have a problem, because being able to offer fans the ability to buy your tickets right from the band, either in person, or the website is good. I guess its when promoters use selling tickets against the bands. I have seen and heard of promoters tryin gto get the bands to pay out of pocket for any tickets they dont sell.. which on top of already playing for free is unheard of. I do see where there can be a chance to open for a larger band.. expose your music to new fans, and the entire industry from touring to radio is a pay to play enviroment in this sense, however on a local level it seems more just in theory, the reality seems to be more often that not promoters only have the bands sell tickets if they dont thnk they will make money off the national, and in this sense the local bands are the ones that ussually get screwed..

My thing on tickets is this... let say for instance you are a band who goes out and "promotes" a show, but you come to me day of show with 10 tickets sold... obviously your approach to promoting wasn't the best and when your guestlist exceeds your people coming out to see you as well. I think that presents a problem. Most people would complain about not getting paid on a show that is understandable, but given the terms above... would you pay them? When all the other bands got out there and busted their asses and sold the tickets that they said they would do.

There is a thought for you, because if the bands do the work, they do get paid and I ensure that. Ask any band that has been on any of my bills with the exception of one.

This thread is old news it has been debated on the other forum, so you can go over there for negativity... if you don't like selling tickets... don't beg to be on the bill?

NO negativity here nikka , just a simple debate.. i think the situation you are refering to is a specific one, no one is calling you out or saying YOU dont pay bands.. you should only be offended if you fit the description of a lazy, or greedy promoter.. personally i dont know you well enough to make either of those claims about you one way or the other ,I have only worked with you once.. and regardless of how that show turned out.. it was one show.... so dont think i am saying you run EVERY show like that one.. given the cluserfuck that show was.. so dont take offense, this isnt a personal attack on you nikka, and you;r e not the only promoter having band sell tickets, it seems to be a sad trend that is taking off off a national level, we have dealt with this from the other side as well, being the band on tour, and having the promoter have our opening bands sell tickets, and it has more often that not turned into a cluster fuck much like the situation we were involved in with you.. too many bands, not enough organization... in reference to the exact details you refered too, your facts are a bit scewed on that..... i thought we have desuccsed that but if there are still things with that situation that need clarifying then please feel free to contact me privetly, no need for personal business to brought out in a public forum

Easy there Nikka. This is a new forum and we have lots of new users who may not have been aware of this situation. Maybe you know who Sev3n is, but i dont, and if we can help new people figure this stuff out then we should help in any way we can.

I dont like the idea that you have to cough up the rest of the money for not selling all your tickets either. I guess it just comes down to, if you know you can do it, then do it. If you are not ready for that kind of commitment, or you dont have a good team to sell tickets, then dont do it.

Nikka keep in mind bro that we aint slingin dirt over here, and we dont tell people to go to other forums if they wanna debate something. I dont think the guy had anything that was overly negative. Hes just tryin to figure it out. He's not the first, and he wont be the last.

OH , in regards to people being new the forum i guess i should introduce myself, is there already an introduction thread that i may have missed?

I am the foudner/frontman of an industrial/Metal band called Human Factors Lab. We're florida based and do Local shows on occasion but have been doing a but of touring on a national level the past 2 years, we're working on a new album and trying to keep active with shows in Florida while we're doing that. IN a sense we;ve been away from the local/florida music scene for a little while, so we are kinda getting to know the bands, and promoters around.. hopefully connect with some great people to do some shows with


www.humanfactorslab.com

ScreamhouseShane wrote:

Easy there Nikka. This is a new forum and we have lots of new users who may not have been aware of this situation. Maybe you know who Sev3n is, but i dont, and if we can help new people figure this stuff out then we should help in any way we can.

I dont like the idea that you have to cough up the rest of the money for not selling all your tickets either. I guess it just comes down to, if you know you can do it, then do it. If you are not ready for that kind of commitment, or you dont have a good team to sell tickets, then dont do it.

Nikka keep in mind bro that we aint slingin dirt over here, and we dont tell people to go to other forums if they wanna debate something. I dont think the guy had anything that was overly negative. Hes just tryin to figure it out. He's not the first, and he wont be the last.

I apologize. I will play nice

lol.

Sev3n, feel free to ask for any kind of advice or help you ever need. That is what we are here for. We all are going to have different oppinions, but i think you have the right idea in mind by trying to find another perspective, or to try and see the other side and figure out why or how it could work better.

Here is my belif on tickets, I get out there and do what I gotta do and I would expect the same from any band I add on my bill. I would never bite off more than what I can chew and without confirming it with my other band members as well... unless you are rich enough to pay out of pocket that is your thing.

I mean many places do that and some are most strict than others, there was an instance once with a band at Firestone where a band wasn't even able to play, because they didn't reach the amount of tickets. The venue kept the money and kicked the band off the bill.

I just think tickets are a way to easier promote your show and as Shane stated making people commit to the show in advance, you can flyer the world, but half the shit gets taken down these days, so basically the only way to get it out there is going to shows and making sure that people know!

Different strokes for different folkes, I guess? The above is just my opinion on the subject.

There is a promoter side to the argument, and yes, there are shitty promoters out there who do no work at all and are looking to take advantage of the locals in order to pocket for themselves, without doing a whole lot of work.

However, I also don't see a problem with a band 'earning' their way onto a show. If I was promoting a show with a big, several thousand dollar national act on the bill, I would probably be asking every band that wanted on "can you sell x-amount of tickets". Why?

Cuz I don't have several thousand dollars to lose. Very few people do.

See, to me, part of the problem in the realm of promoting shows properly, local or otherwise, is that bands, promoters, and venues have sorta lost touch with each other, and don't really consider very often what the needs of the other is. Now, don't take this personally, I have no reason to be calling out anyone on here. This is a generalized view of what I see.

Venues don't give a fuck if the fans like your band or not. Promoters don't give a fuck if your band makes it or not. Bands don't give a fuck if the venue sells a single drink or if the promoter makes guarantee.

This, to me, is a destructive cycle that is sorta tearing this town, and music in general, apart.

Cohesion and unity, it's a good thing.

Oh, Sev3n, I wasn't sure if that was you, or just a random user. I do know you. I use to be the singer for Ring Of Scars, and we use to work together at American Pawn lol. Whats up bro!?

Good point Eric. Maybe you could come up with some sort of new networking aproach to shows. It will take a little while to implement, but you gotta start somewhere. Communication is the key. You gotta find out what everyone needs and then try to find a way to make some sort of agreement. I like where you are going with that one.

oh shit dude.. whats up!? havnt seen you in a while.. how are things bro?.. funny running into online heh

As you can see we are building an empire! lol j/k I've got a new band and we are getting some major shit together before we release anything. Check it out at www.iwillbreakthee.com.